Navigating Transformation: Amy Higman on Mediumship, Acceptance, and Dealing with ADHD

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to. This Is Source, the podcast that invites you to explore the depths of your being and tap into your true potential. This show is all about inspiring you to discover the power within yourself to create a life of purpose, joy and fulfillment. So sit back, relax and let's dive deep into the essence of who you are.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Hello, hello Amy, how are you?

Speaker 3: 0:37

I'm great Agris. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:38

I'm very, very good. You know it's going through the waves.

Speaker 4: 0:42

Yeah, this could be dangerous, but I'm excited that I think we need a good exploration. So I'm excited for this conversation. We have Amy Higman with us today, psychic and medium, and so she's going to tell us a little bit about herself. She's a transformation doula, which I really. I just heard that. I really like that. I feel like we're always trying to come up with unique names to describe kind of our work here on this planet. Right, that is the first time I've heard transformation doula, so you might want to Thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:15

I have not. I haven't started the trademark process, but I haven't. I haven't put the money down yet.

Speaker 4: 1:21

Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:22

Yeah, it's, you know. So I have, you know, told people that I'm a psychic and a medium, because so far, most of the people that have come to me, they find me through this, that spiritual side. But prior to starting that business, I was actually in leadership development and I have a coaching certificate and emotional intelligence coaching. So I feel like my capacity to support people expands beyond just the psychic and medium shipwork, and so I was really trying to figure out how do I tell people what I do? And I'm very into being with people in the raw experience of humanity, you know, and so that's and I was thinking about, you know, being a mom. I've gone through labor and I was just thinking about how we have labor, doulas and death. Doulas and transformation really is both. There's a part of you dying and you're laboring at recreating who you're going to be, and so I really fell in love with the idea of being able to hold people in that transition.

Speaker 4: 2:27

Right.

Speaker 4: 2:27

Well, it actually makes a lot of sense to me because I've said to people before that are going through difficult, you know, situations in their life whether it's a tragedy or it's just a bunch of unfortunate circumstances, that it's a death.

Speaker 4: 2:41

You know that like, for example, a divorce, you know it's a death and but when we have, like, when somebody's dying, we have a system to support that the bereavement process, right, and so there are, if you choose to accept it, there are things in place that can help a person to transition through that, and they understand all the emotions that are involved and like self care and exploration and and like trying to give that whole experience meaning, and but when it comes to, you know, just going through a difficult life situation, right, or like a tragedy, or or even the death of a marriage, there's really not a whole lot of systems to support that.

Speaker 4: 3:20

You know, and a lot of people don't understand it or it triggers them in some way, so they don't even like, want to deal with it. You know, you hear that a lot in like divorce communities is like they lose a lot of friends and people don't want to have that conversation because, like, they don't like the whole idea of what that means, and so they kind of just like want to push it away so they don't have to think about it. So I like this idea of a transformation doula and and you know, I see not only you doing that but other people doing that right, just being there throughout their journey and helping them to understand. This is why you feel the way, that you feel it's all normal.

Speaker 4: 3:55

And so these are the things that you can do a little bit differently that'll help you get through it, kind of navigate those waters.

Speaker 3: 4:01

Right, congratulations. You're human, it's hard.

Speaker 4: 4:04

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, maybe we could well. So the question that I said to you before we started was what. I forgot what the question was, but I remember what the answer was. You said that you were going through the waves. I think I asked you what you've been up to and you said you were going through the waves. So what's your? What's your?

Speaker 3: 4:24

So, mark, when you and I first chatted it was months ago and I had just self diagnosed with autism and ADHD, and so part of my waves is I've been trying to get a formal diagnosis for the ADHD, and spirit has kept. There's just been roadblocks. I've literally four psychiatrists have no called, no showed or gotten sick or retired, like I just haven't been able to get an appointment, and my ability to cope has gotten worse and worse and worse, because in the month since we've talked, my eldest child just started kindergarten. So the public school life is busier and more complex than the life I had. So it's that's been hard.

Speaker 3: 5:08

But then what's been fascinating about it is that I've been having flashbacks to college, which in hindsight I can recognize as, oh, that was when I was no longer able to cope with ADHD, and I can recognize that that's what happened. But in the moment there were really painful moments of shame and disappointment, and so it's been a real emotionally draining process and I'm I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful that I didn't just go get put on Adderall and, boom, there's a fix, like I'm glad that all of this is coming up to be healed. But it's been really raw and on the one hand, I'm sending my former self compassion at like, oh, like she just didn't know that she was struggling with all of this, but on the other hand, every time I have the memory like, my instant reaction is shame. And so I'm still having to sit in that emotion and process. And yeah, it's been. It's been intense, but it sounds like I'm not the only one going through waves lately.

Speaker 4: 6:09

So no, no, definitely not. And now I want to give Agriza a chance to kind of tell us what waves he's gone through. But before that I just want to say that Did we have this conversation about, or did you make that realization after you when I spoke to your memory?

Speaker 3: 6:25

We had the conversation about autism at the time. We mostly spoke about autism because I was less sure about the ADHD and again I'm still trying to get the formal diagnosis.

Speaker 4: 6:38

But yeah, yeah, I mean because it's because right away I was like yep, bend down that road, you know. And that when I started, you know, when my kids, my four kids, the oldest two didn't really present with any of those issues, they sort of took to regular mainstream learning without any huge issues. And then when my son entered school, that's when kind of everything got crazy, because he was very much like me and he processed the world similarly, you know, through that ADHD lens, and he was so in third grade and second grade I think he was fine, they were no issues and he just got along with his teacher. So they had a good rapport and I think she just worked with him without even realizing it. And then his teacher the year after that was a lot less tolerant of how he needed to kind of cope with it.

Speaker 4: 7:26

So he wasn't formally diagnosed at the time but she just kept hounding me with like this is the problem, that's the problem and you need to fix it. And you're not, and I'm like how do you fix somebody? That's the way that they are. You know, right, this kid who, just to give you an example, when he comes home from school he talks from the minute he walks in the door until he goes to bed at night, and the only way he'll fall asleep at night is if I lay next to him and he basically talks like a hundred miles an hour and then just stops talking.

Speaker 4: 7:55

It's almost, but you can't make him stop, he just sort of needs to run through all that and he has to feel okay with all of that, you know. And one time we went to see Avatar, right. So this was like this huge awakening that I had, so it's like a three hour movie and I went to see it with all my kids and my wife and we watched and he must have gotten up like I don't know. 40, 50 times he asked me like 785 questions. He had to go to the bathroom, he had to refill his popcorn, he had to get another drink, he had to ask, and one point he's like I gotta go to the bathroom. So we get up and it was his longest stretch of not going to the bathroom in the movie. And we get out into the hallway and he's like blah, blah, blah. He just starts like saying all this stuff and I'm like, and he's like does it feel so good to talk? It's so hard to. And I realized like I had this sort of moment where I was like, wow, talking is like breathing for him. Asking him not to talk is like asking him not to breathe. And he'll do it if he has to behave right In a certain way because of the way society has things right, like if he was home watching a movie, we have to pause the movie 700 times, right, but for a new movie theater you can't do that. So he was finding ways to cope.

Speaker 4: 9:07

So I realized we all find ways to cope, right? I remember when I was in elementary school and they didn't have, like they weren't really diagnosing people with ADHD and also they didn't have like the IEP track where they were with kids to help them to cope with that. So I had to find ways, use my creativity and find ways to raise my hand. Can I go to the bathroom? Can I go to the nurse? Can I take this down to? My mom worked in the building, so I always had to find excuses why I had to deliver something to her. That's how I got out of that environment so that I could. You know, for Jack it was talking, for me it was more just changing the scene. Always, you know, like I didn't want that amount. So so I understand exactly what you're going through and also we realize, as we see it in other people too, like what we suffered with without having that understanding.

Speaker 3: 9:58

I've been teasing my husband. I was like I'm basically an Olympian, Like if you look at all I've managed to cope with for so long and held it at bay. As soon as I gave myself permission to stop coping and to really follow my instincts, I realized how hard I'd been working for so long. And there's there's a lot of grief there. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 10:21

So definitely yeah. And what does he say about that?

Speaker 3: 10:25

I joke about it because I don't know. Just the audacity to call oneself an Olympian is right, is funny.

Speaker 4: 10:32

I have to ask that question because I say the same stuff to Kate and I know her response. So I was curious what his response. And that's pretty much the same thing. I go okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:42

The. Thing that's.

Speaker 3: 10:42

That's. That's funny about it is, in general I present as somebody with low self-esteem, like I'm not a person that's going to brag about myself or whatever. So my husband's like so in the case of your, would be seen as like a negative to the outside world because it's a diagnosis. Then you excel at it. I was like yeah, exactly. So there's that irony there.

Speaker 4: 11:04

Yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:05

I'm like I really want to hear from Agris because we've been talking for minutes.

Speaker 4: 11:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:10

I mean I like to listen as well, you know just listening, and there is lots of things running through my mind as well about many things you've spoken and you know, for me it's very interesting part of that. You said that there is sort of new openings, new transformations happening in your life and for me what I got that sense of we have to be open to new layers and to highs and lows, to those new layers, because for us really to transform and open to new things, add new things in our lives, we just have to experience whole spectrum of those new layers. And I feels like what's happening with me laterally as well and interesting. You mentioned that you cannot really determine what is what you do. Right? You're like how do I call myself? You know, I kind of understand this, I kind of have compassion for that. You know, like I'm like this how do I brand myself these days? Because it feels like you cannot separate one thing from another because both are really great, great, greatly helps on the journey you are going through. There is no really separation in your mind, but humanity asks for separation, like can you just really tell who you are, because I need to fix this or that, but for you is like I'm saying for you because it's for me as well, you know, right, for me is like wait, but this is not separate. You know, like, personally, for me, I see everything as energy flow, you know. So I can literally look at any type of situation in business, in any life situation as well, and I can see everything as energy and I see why that flow is not really flowing, you know, and that, why humans wants to create that stuck energy, because they want to control things and we fixing things on certain aspect of ourselves, we as well, creating stuck energy of certain profession, we associate ourselves. But I think our nature is like no, no, wait, wait, let's flow, let's just open to new things. Let's just add to this consciousness we taking in and just add all those new things for who we are, because every layer we open, it might be very difficult for us really to breathe in, but it's very, very good for us just to add this new layer, because the world is changing. We have to add those new layers and, as you said, those medium or their qualities, because that's what we need in process of transformation, because transformation is really really one state of energy becoming a different state of energy Probably looks the same, but it's completely different expression. So it's just.

Speaker 2: 14:36

There's lots of things I can take from what you talk. Already you know and I don't know. It's crazy and I feel it, you know, because myself I've been in the talent business. I was advising and managing talents and I can see every aspect of it and how it can be transformed into a new way of relationship between people. And for me it's like am I talent manager? Am I something else? And I feel like there's so many more layers to myself than just that one aspect. So that's why I was like I really understand what you're talking about, so maybe you want to come and do this, do this energetic conductor?

Speaker 3: 15:21

I love that. I love that, yeah, it's. I liked what you said about in the transformation process, how we don't. We don't know where it's going to go, we don't get to decide where it's going to go. And that is humans. We want to kind of box ourselves in because the brain loves those boxes and categories, like. One of the ways that's manifested.

Speaker 3: 15:41

For me that's surprisingly interesting is I'm giving myself permission to not make eye contact with people and it's, it's wild. I'm. I'm a person that has been so focused on everybody else for so long. But the amount of effort, especially at the end of the day, when it's like dinner time and the kids are here, but if I'm with my family and we're trying to have a really heartfelt conversation, the amount of effort it takes me to maintain eye contact versus to be present in my own body to actually tell the story, it's like it's such a random I wouldn't have perceived it, but when I really was like OK, now that I understand the way that I work differently, how can I better support myself? And one of the ways is for certain relationships, at certain times I'm like I want to tell you this story and I want to connect with you, but I I'm going to connect with you without making eye contact because the amount of energy it takes me to do that, it's just so draining that it's just you know, and fortunately all my loved ones Like sure, let's experiment with this, it's going to be fine, but it's surprising, and in other ways it's, it's been, it's been interesting, like I've looked at the way that I work and I haven't.

Speaker 3: 16:56

I haven't figured anything out yet about work, but I at least, watching myself go OK, I could see how there might be some strengths to this and I can see how I really have not been supporting myself well in this, and so part of what's going to have to be a process and I'm just going to have to allow to be a process is the way my work is going to change and so, as you said, it's like it's going to be, it's going to be a flow. It's not going to be something that I get to necessarily direct and I really admire that. I know a few people where they feel like I just see the energy and I can just see like where it's flowing and where it's stuck. I feel like for me, I have to bump into something like six times before I go. Oh, I'm stuck.

Speaker 3: 17:43

You know, so I just thought that's a beautiful gift to have and to recognize that you have. That can be so helpful to people.

Speaker 2: 17:52

It's interesting that you said that when you look into eyes during the conversation, it's hard for you energy wise because I think you actually embracing the person, so you actually getting another person hour and becoming another person, so you actually cannot speak any more from yourself and it's actually very, very full of energy consuming thing to do that you know. So it's interesting that you mentioned that.

Speaker 3: 18:21

I mean, it depends if somebody's talking to me, then I love to look at them, because if I'm not looking at them I can't really listen. But if I'm the one talking, I'm feeling so much inside of my body that if I could just close my eyes to tell the story and whatever is happening, to actually try to make eye contact Probably because the autism, but it's it's so much effort to maintain eye contact and I've done it for so many years because that's what we're trained to do, that's what we're told is the loving thing to do and it is a very loving thing to do and it does connect. But and it's not with everybody, it's not like everybody. I talked to him like, listen, I can't manage the eye contact thing.

Speaker 3: 19:04

It's with very safe people that I see on a regular basis, that are my family members, and I'm just like I really want to listen and I really want to have this conversation. I'm having trouble focusing on it and I'll have an easier time focusing if my eyes are closed. And it's wild how that seems to be such a brave and also crazy request. You know, like at our human nature we're like wait what. It's interesting to me that that is such a charged behavior pattern of ours. Mark, I see you make it all sorts of faces.

Speaker 4: 19:37

So I mean, because I'm my brain that my synapses are firing like crazy right now, because I'm seeing all the connections and I mean everything that you're saying. So, yeah, when society makes it wrong, right? I mean, like back to what Agraus was saying. You know, it's like we fear, because of the way that we're conditioned, right From our parents, from religion, from society, that we don't want to come across as the master. What is it? What's the saying? Master of everything, what is it?

Speaker 3: 20:12

Oh, master of the universe.

Speaker 4: 20:13

No, like you don't master anything because you're good at everything there's a thing.

Speaker 3: 20:18

I can't remember what there's like a I can't think of that saying, but yeah.

Speaker 4: 20:23

Jack of all trades, jack of all trades, master of none, right?

Speaker 4: 20:28

Yeah, negative connotation, right, so nobody wants to be that. We all want to be the best at whatever we can be, right. As soon as you meet someone and they're like so I'm a Ricky master, I'm a psychic, I'm a medium, I'm a life coach, I work with crystals, I, you're just like OK. Next, because you think like this person, how could you be good at all those things? I just want this person that's just a medium to do this. I want this person that's just a life coach to do this. You know, and.

Speaker 4: 20:55

But what I hear Agraus saying, and you know, is that that's the old way of doing things. And you know, the universe is evolving and and, and all of these functions are necessary at you being, you know, successful at what you came here to do, which is like, if we had to one title on it, we could call it healer, right? Like just helping somebody go from a place of pain and suffering to a place of peace and comfort or whatever. You know. So, but yeah, so I think that we don't feel good about that. We don't want to say that we're all these things, but then you, so you're like, ok, I'm going to be the medium and I'm going to be really good at that ability. And then you start to sit down with someone and start tapping in and you have evidence that you're connecting with their loved ones, but then all of a sudden comes flooding in some intuitive guidance that you could offer them not necessarily Right and then you have all of your life experiences you've gone through, so you want that to come in and it's like wait, I don't want to just call myself a medium, because if, if I don't just give them, you know, 20 minutes of Aunt Sally, 20 minutes of dad and 20 minutes of the best friend that died when I was 20, then that's not going to be a good session for them.

Speaker 4: 22:05

You know, and you're like I have all this other stuff that I can offer you that could really help you on your journey. So I think that it just makes a lot of sense why we're afraid and we're like I've been through this, agris has been through it. You're being honest, that you're going through. I think everybody does like what do we call ourselves? How do we? What kind of title do we put on that? And a lot of it has to do with us being okay with. Yes, I am all these things you know do six shows just on. You have to offer. If we just broke each Like trait that you have into its own conversation, which I kind of want to do because I'm curious about the medium shit, any yeah, the medium ship is is it's surprising to me, it was.

Speaker 3: 22:49

It's not something I'm particularly passionate about, like I don't want to belittle it at all. It just came so naturally to me that I thought everybody could do it. So I didn't necessarily see it as valuable. When I first started doing medium ship for people I'm embarrassed to say that, but that is the truth of my journey I was just like, yeah, sure, like I can do medium ship. Like like it was sort of I didn't want to treat it like like a card trick that you would do at parties, because I understand that it's sacred work. But I didn't have a full appreciation for it until I really started seeing Other people have very different ideas about death and the afterlife than what I have.

Speaker 3: 23:28

So, like for me, medium ship is like well cool. Like of course our loved ones are still alive, of course we can connect with them. But for a lot of clients there's profound healing and understanding in medium ship and it's become much more a part of how I help people than I ever would have imagined. Yeah, it's surprising the way medium ship works compared to I don't know other forms of helping people.

Speaker 4: 23:58

Yeah, I understand what you mean, because after losing somebody to a tragedy and in the beginning process it was just like I want to connect with that person and that's all that matters and that sort of evolved into. Now I want to know how the universe works. Now I don't want to know why I'm here. You know that's beyond medium ship, right?

Speaker 3: 24:19

Yeah, but it's so true, it's like it's kind of the gateway drug to people that didn't have that spiritual.

Speaker 3: 24:24

But then where do people go? Well, where is that energy? And it just expands from there. Yeah, that's lovely.

Speaker 3: 24:32

And the thing about medium ship that I also think is not problematic but is sensitive is, I think there's like you kind of have to have some counseling skills. I want to be mindful with people. I think not everybody knows when they're ready and when they're not ready to have a medium ship reading, and so I really rely on my intuition with that, because there are some people that are not ready, and I think, to go around and just being like, oh well, I could connect you with your loved ones, like sure you know, no problem. It's a little bit too dismissive of the person's loss, you know. Like sure it's easy. We'll just, you know, see you on Zoom on Thursday. No big deal. It's a little cavalier for somebody that is genuinely devastated, you know. So having that mindfulness is, I mean, it's something I try to do. I'm not perfect at it, but it's an interesting thing. It's not like I've spent money on ads or anything, but I always think about like advertising for mediumship seems such a weird thing to do for that reason for me, right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:45

Very interesting and I like it that you add that another layers. You know it's not enough just with mediumship. You know I have to put another qualities to that work, to navigate the best possible way, how to work with the people Right, and you don't you don't call it really work because it's come so easy in a sense for you, you know, to connect to, to those spirit energies. Right, it's not the actual human being anymore, but it's just the energy which is living forever, right, and just it's. Actually. I'm very fascinated about this, you know, like I love there's coming from Latvia, which is Eastern, eastern North Europe and we used to be part of Soviet Union before, and there's that region and also Russia itself is known about mediums and all those extra sensoric things. You know they in Russia they have actually one TV show which they call extra sense or I don't know how it's, and I love to watch them, you know, and they're really strong mediums and they just like crazy, they're connecting with the like, with their loved ones and and and it's funny they call it the battle of extra, extra sensoric. Those people, you know, they call it battle Interesting. I was like they, they must be, and I see them. Who has that gift, you know, and how they're using it to showing off that gift.

Speaker 2: 27:24

Many times they are very sensitive, those people, they are very they. They don't have much sense of I call it sense of other person sometimes. So because they and they can get in arguing, they can get in fights, and they can I don't say it's, it's you, but I'm saying you see how badly they use that skill. You know they actually don't, they don't have any sense of that intuition actually just what is necessary to be told, what is necessary to be managed for that person's health and so on. You know, and and I think it's just there, those gifts can actually be exercised in really bad manner as well and in a bad way.

Speaker 2: 28:14

So it's it's very important that you know, as we spoke about all those layers and everything that what comes into our lives, you know, like there is a reason why it comes in certain sequence openings. You know, like that we probably we are not ready at some point actually use that skill in a right manner just to help, to show the way or to be the guide for the other humans, and I think that's what we are waking up to right now. You know, we are remembering those skills which are necessary really to to guide the new way of living and being, you know, on this planet Earth, because planet Earth itself going through that changes transformations. So I think that's who we are, you know. We are someone who accessing those new layers, aspects of ourselves which we came here to be and, step by step, we really integrating that in our lives.

Speaker 2: 29:21

And, and as you said, it's for you it feels like very simple to be the medium. For me, for example, it's very simple to feel other person, even know what they're going to tell, and I feel those energies. And for me it's like how do you? Don't feel it, you know? Like sometimes you look at others to think, yeah, it's so easy, you know, you, just you know. But somebody's like what you're talking about, I don't even understand what you're talking about. I don't feel anything, you know. I just I just want to say what I think and that's it. You know you don't have any that sense of.

Speaker 2: 29:58

So that's why I think those we really have to recognize our gifts and an an open to those new layers and really embrace it all in one whole and deliver as the whole package. I would say, not just those separate things. So just I'm really, you know, I really have, I really admire people who has that mediumship gift, because I don't really have it, you know. I just feel energies, I understand how this everything works, but I don't have that. Yeah, it's easy, you know, it's easy just to connect to, to I don't know your, your grand grandma or grandpa, you know, and just get messages. Just that's for me, it's really. I admire you know. So I would love to speak more about that. You know how you use that gift. You know how you connect. I think it's very interesting because that's something like maybe two, three centuries or even more ago it was they call it what witchcraft or whatever. It was right. It was something which was actually forbidden to do and you could get burned.

Speaker 3: 31:10

Yeah, yeah, you know it's, and I don't want to make myself sound better than I am. I have made the mistakes, like I, I did readings for some extended family members that they did not ask for and and I learned from that mistake. I apologize to them because not only did they not ask for it and they were uncomfortable, but it also they stated it with me out of courtesy to me and it really went against their worldview. And so, like here, they were presented with this information and they just didn't know what to do with it. It wasn't healing like, it was all about me and my ego. So that was years ago. But yeah, I learned things the hard way.

Speaker 3: 31:53

I'm an experiential learner. For me, the gift of mediumship has been it's really been a gift for my own healing just as much as it's been a gift for other people. The energy of connecting with loved ones. It's so subtle compared to if I feel like I'm channeling somebody's guide or angels. I feel like my energy blends with that energy and it's not quite like trans channeling, but it's much easier. It just sort of flows easier, whereas with mediumship I have a harder time stepping out of the way because my ego wants to be like why am I seeing a banana? A banana makes no sense for this person. You know, like my brain wants to always understand why what's coming through. So, as a person, a has forced me to create really solid boundaries, where I used to have no boundaries and I just used to feel everybody's everything and that wasn't helpful. And then, b, I've had to really just trust spirit and surrender to the process. It is constantly like I don't know why I'm seeing this, but I'm going to say it and then we're going to see what happens and I'm just going to trust that spirit has my back and I might fall on my face and eat it or might make perfect sense Like I have no clue what's going to happen.

Speaker 3: 33:17

Mediumship is it's been very good for my own personal development because of that. It's so subtle. It's so subtle I've noticed I had a reading yesterday and I noticed this is the fourth reading in a row where the first spirit that came through was somebody that that person hadn't met, like a grandparent that died before they were born, and I was like I don't know why this is coming through, that I've had readings in a row where this is the case, but it's I'm trusting that collectively, for whatever reason. We as a species are needing to connect with our ancestors at this time, or we're needing to get their support. I don't know why it's happening, but like that's been a thing that's happening, and it's another example of I just have to surrender to this process. This is not who this person wanted to connect with, but I don't get to control that. So, yeah, it's really fascinating. And, mark, didn't you get into Mediumship? Don't you also have some natural skill for that?

Speaker 4: 34:12

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:13

Yeah, so what's your experience of it?

Speaker 4: 34:15

Well, first of all, I'm laughing because I'm thinking Agrius is probably seeing like crazy parallels between the two of us, because he knows me very well and you're sort of introducing yourself to him for the first time and this crazy parallels, right, agrius? Yeah, but yeah, I mean so for me.

Speaker 2: 34:31

I have to comment. I have to comment. Just ask me a question. You know, and I think, like honestly, you know, knowing Mark, I think Mark as well, in a way, struggling really to allow to be who he is. You know, he's just accepting that, oh, it's more easy to go with one title and do, because it's sort of easy and I don't know when Mark will come out of his closet, you know, really, to tell all the gifts he has, but I'm waiting. Maybe today, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 35:06

Yeah, well, I mean, so I feel like I have, and then I go back in and I, and then I come back out and then I go back in, and it's for a couple of different reasons. A lot of it had to do with just my pre-programming, you know. It was just that I grew up in a really strict religious household and I was always rebellious in my own way. So there was a part of me that thought like, oh, I could do whatever I want because I'm a rebel and you know, and. But I didn't realize that there was, there was coding, that was there, whether I liked it or not. And so, even though there was the rebel inside of me that was like I'm going to say a medium and I'm going to, you know, announce to the world that I'm a medium and I'm going to offer services as a medium.

Speaker 4: 35:45

There still was a part of me that was, you know, really scared, you know, and couldn't wait to jump back into the cave.

Speaker 4: 35:52

You know, and every time and like everybody could say this, about any career that you're in, there's going to be hardships, right, there's going to be, and there was definitely. You know, you're rocking and rolling, start getting your clients, you're giving your readings, stuff's flowing in, you're like, yeah, and they're crying and they're like that was amazing. And then they tell a few friends and then they start calling you and you start building momentum and then, like, something happens right, like, also, you have a bad reading, or you have a bad day, or you have like something. You know, some kind of resistance shows up that separates the people that are like I'm going to do this from the rest of my life and I'm going to, you know, knock the dust off my jeans and get back up on duty again. Or I should have known this was stupid, this was always stupid, this was dangerous. Why did I get myself involved in? And, you know, jump back into the cave. But there's always like that in the matrix, they say, the splinter in the back of your mind.

Speaker 4: 36:43

That's like, okay, you know, amy, you don't want to show up as the medium, fine, but you have to show up as this you know, which is like a variation of mediumship, which is like an intuitive or something like that, or a channel, or or you know, it's all tied together. It's all different shades of the same color, right? That's why I was like bobbing my head before like crazy when you mentioned it, because what Agris was saying about you and your, his comment, about your comment about not making eye contact with people so I've been that down that road too and I actually have to do that as well. I don't know if you've noticed, but I also have to look away sometimes too, and what I've learned is that and Agris knows this is that when you are susceptible and sensitive to other people's energy, if you're not really, really, really really focused, it's super easy for me, if I'm paying attention to you, to get like morphed into that.

Speaker 4: 37:36

You know I mean sort of lose, almost myself, in order to feel what's going on like within you, right.

Speaker 3: 37:43

Yeah, inappropriate intimacy.

Speaker 4: 37:45

Yeah, exactly Exactly so, I so, and I love the idea of you. You're practicing right. So when you say to your family, it might seem totally silly to them, but one of my family thinks I'm batshit crazy because I have to come up with crazy ideas like this too. But just like I want to practice communicating with you without making eye contact with you, because I want to see if I can hold my vibration, you know what I have going on with me and communicate with you without getting distracted by what's going on with you at the same time. So and also, interestingly, you know, bringing the autism piece into this when you really start, sit down and start to study autism, all those traits present themselves and people with autism right.

Speaker 4: 38:29

So like not wanting to make eye contact, so it's like, and we look at them like there's something wrong with them, right, or they could be looked at, but maybe they're just highly attuned humans, you know, and they intuitively know I cannot make eye contact with you. I need to, like, stay within the realm of what I have gone on over here and somebody else might say, oh, there's something wrong with that child because he doesn't know how to make eye contact right. But maybe is there room for a conversation about this idea that maybe it's just an evolved human and maybe what you're going through is sort of an expression of that evolved human, and some people could call it autism and some people call it ADHD and some people could call it like the evolution of, like the human species just being able to tap into alternate states of consciousness or the oneness, and also like communicate like two humans doing in like a normal conversation at the same time. And I think what I hear you saying is that you're trying to navigate that Like how can I?

Speaker 3: 39:28

Yeah, I am trying to navigate that and I'm trying to navigate it in a way that doesn't lay it at the feet of being a psychiatrist, you know like what they're. I've read an article recently that said people that are highly sensitive, people are really just autistic, and there's a lot of impacts out there that identify as being highly sensitive. And you know, I think about there are people out there that have autism and ADHD that are not going to pursue a psychic route, and so I don't. I don't want to conflate the two, even though I think mine are definitely related and it's tricky. I also I was listening to a podcast about autism the other day and so I don't know what the article or the research was, but she referenced that she had just read this article where they were doing brain research on people with autism and in their research it was showing that autistic brains literally have more neural pathways than non-autistic brains, so they're having to filter through more senses, more sensation, than non-autistic brains. So that's why we're more likely to get overwhelmed. So I wouldn't say it's necessarily like an evolved human. I would just say it's a different human.

Speaker 3: 40:47

Are you familiar with Ainsley McLeod's work? Who's in the soul types? So I'm kind of like yeah, I'm a sensitive soul type and I think about how different humans need different things. Like my husband, he has got to exercise and if he doesn't he's going to get depressed. It's like his body needs to move and I thought I was that way until I met him.

Speaker 3: 41:11

I'm like oh, he's really that way and so he needs to move every day and he has a desk job, so we have to prioritize that. This is what's going to be his needs. Is that he needs to have exercise time before or after work, whereas with me it's like OK, what are my needs? I haven't been in touch with those. Honestly, I've been so busy making sure that everybody else gets their eye contact and everybody else gets to climb on mom whenever they need to climb on mom, even though my body is like please shut me in a dark closet and leave me alone. Like my body is overwhelmed. But I had been prioritizing that for so long that now it's this process discovering what the needs are and then giving myself permission to be different. Oh, it's so cringy. Like if I could be a wallflower and just look like everybody else and just like not make any waves. That would be so lovely, but that's not what my soul came here to do.

Speaker 4: 42:05

So it's just not possible.

Speaker 3: 42:07

It's not Like I'm not going to be able to do what I'm called to do for work and then to meet my own needs. So that's been, it's my, that's. The waves that I've been experiencing is not only the emotions and realizing of past events, but it's also like I'm going to have to be. I'm going to have to be willing to advocate for myself. That's the only way to really live out. My sole purpose is I'm going to be willing to advocate for myself and to be different, and fortunately I didn't inherit any sort of stigma with autism and ADHD. Like I've had conversations with family members where they're like you might want to like be quieter about that, because other people have different ideas, and I'm like right, but then talking to me about it might help them change those ideas. Possibly it might not, and then they'll think I'm crazy, but they probably already think I'm crazy anyway.

Speaker 3: 43:00

So, it's fine.

Speaker 4: 43:02

Right, well, I think I agree. That's what you and I talk about all the time, right, that's the whole. It's just you said being your own advocates that we haven't used that word, but I really like that. But we've talked about you know, just you being the authority figure in your own life and not eating other people to tell you how to live your life or to give you the approval or permission slip that you think you need in order to express yourself in a way you feel you need to. That's it Out of mind. And how do you change who you are at that fundamental level? I mean, I'm going to tell you what you're going to say. You're a sensitive person. You were born that way. Just shut it off. It doesn't work here.

Speaker 3: 43:38

Great, just stop it.

Speaker 4: 43:40

Yeah, just stop caring about people, stop being able to understand their emotions, stop listening to their relatives that are trying to send them messages. Just shut it all down, because it's easier for other people if you just play by these rules. And we're joking around when we say that, but that's literally what happened to us in our childhood.

Speaker 3: 43:56

Yeah Me a lot less so than for you, I have to say, yeah, yeah, I at least had my emotions, were always validated. My parents were ahead of their time in that field, so I lean in. Part of my strength as a person that has to undergo transformation is that I'm like, oh, I guess I need to feel grief now. Ok, well, here goes the grief, so I can just dive into the emotions, which helps them dissipate faster. But yeah, I have a friend who had more of a childhood like yours and she's been reading a book lately.

Speaker 3: 44:32

I think it's called the Not Nice Book and it's about like, stop people pleasing. And in the book he's talking about how, when you're designed to people, please, you have eventually shut down your own emotional intelligence and the voices that are talking to you in the head. Like what if you just listen to them? And so my friend was telling me about she's listening to this book. She goes Amy, it dawned on me like my emotions are valid, like they, they're just emotions and it's OK for me to have emotion. And I was like you, were in your mid 40s and you just now dawned on you that it's OK to have emotion. And so and I'm not singling her out I think she's the majority, of course, but it was awakening for me of like, oh, this is really a lot of people don't know that it's not only normal, human, safe but healthy to have an emotional experience. Wow, sorry, I just tangented.

Speaker 4: 45:29

When you were talking about like being shut down for the people. I was giving aggressions to unmute himself. That's why.

Speaker 2: 45:36

I was really sinking into that. I contact the thing as well, you know, really, because it just really touched from all of this. You know, I'm just thinking how, how shifting that paradigm you know how it's shifting from who really is uncomfortable. You know that shifting that, the understanding of that, that the person actually who feels that he doesn't want to make the eye contact, who actually is hurt, who is the person actually sort of the because, like, if you really look from that observing the thing is that somebody who force you to look into eyes is actually is the person actually who is like, oh my gosh, he's not looking into my eyes. You know, actually he is the person who is feeling that emotion, but not the other one.

Speaker 2: 46:33

It just was like, if I think that comes out of that victim mold, from that person who wasn't looked into eyes, you know that always projecting onto others.

Speaker 2: 46:44

You know, and I think that's where we really shifting this whole understanding and seeing things from other perspective. You know like I hope there will be more and more awareness about this. You know that if I feel this way, I should really not project this onto other person but look into myself. Why do I feel it this way, you know so, and and I think that, as you said, you know that, like for like, more sensitive or more like, I think, like I really sense lots of things, so we call it autism, but like, why do we need to to brand it this way? You know, it's just really person who feels and sense so much more because they have they connecting dots, so many more dots than usually, you know, and and just it's like, yeah, I don't want to look into eyes for one reason because I don't want to embrace your energy, because I don't need your energy. You know, that's completely okay, you know, to not embrace into other synergies, because for me, I just want to.

Speaker 3: 47:54

Just that may be the case. That would be why someone wouldn't want to make eye contact. For me, what it is is, if I have to spend my effort looking into your eyes, I will actually be less present than if I close my eyes. For me, it's like I want to be present with you and I I don't have the capacity to be present with you and have my eyes open. So for me, it's not that I'm trying to disconnect, is that I'm trying to connect. And because the way my brain works and the kitchen timer is going off and my kids are yelling and this person is trying to tell me about their day, and then there's like bookshelves and TVs and there's stuff in the background, it's like if I can just shut down at least my, my visual, then I can hear you different. But I do think you're right that we're moving towards this increased awareness, and I think one thing I always have to remind myself is that the human brain is really terrible at imagining other people's experiences. That's not something that the brain is naturally good at. We have to really train that skill, and so I'm constantly reminding myself that I'm expecting other people to be like me and they're just not, and so it's like we just have to be open to a explaining to people what we need, to be present and then be encouraging that conversation, because a lot of people aren't having that conversation.

Speaker 3: 49:21

But if you ask someone, hey, you know we've been talking, it's late. Do you want to keep talking? If you do, do you want to move somewhere more comfortable? Do you want me to? Would it be okay if we held hands? Are you feeling like we need to take a five minute break? Or like maybe we need to get up and walk? Like with my husband, I'd be like I really want to have this conversation. I'm struggling right now. So can I have a five minute break? I'm going to. I'm not potty, I'm going to do some jump and jet, like let me shift my energy. Can I come back? It's like I'm really having to to advocate, and I think that that's a skill that all of us as humans need, and we've been sort of indoctrinated into this. Like you're on zoom from noon to one and then from one to two, you're in the conference room, then you get five minutes for the potty, and then it's like we've been mechanized a little bit.

Speaker 2: 50:08

Just a lot of what you just said about that. Give me a brief, give me that moment so I can come back to my presence, so I can be the best conversation for you, or so, because really this week actually was sort of weird for me because I noticed that I'm so more present on daily basis, because usually it's like, okay, I want to get present and you go to meditation, whatever you use the tools, but I recognize that on the daily basis I become more and more present and that things actually just flow. So I'll give example my son. He's at seventh grade right now and he's struggling computer. He's like, oh, dad, why this is standing here? I need it here. He's just a little bit frustrated.

Speaker 2: 51:04

I was like for me it's like I was like, okay, I'm not going to expect or judge anything, I just will approach that situation.

Speaker 2: 51:13

I look at the computer and I just let just flow whatever comes out of me, without, as you said, why banana comes to my mind, whatever it just comes, and I was like I think you need to press there, do this and see what's happening. And he does it and he's like, oh, you are so smart, how come you know this? I don't, I just let come out whatever I felt, that moment, just the solution, what comes. I don't make any judgment about this, I just let it come and just do like really like many moments like this and I was like wait, is this like sort of presence, what's happening, like why I'm knowing things which I kind of don't know, or maybe I know them, or maybe I just love just to be very present and let things come as it is, instead of trying to make yeah, I actually call that surrender, because when we're trying to make something happen, inherently in that effort there's actually a little bit of resistance sometimes to like the thing being a thing oh I've got to fix this.

Speaker 3: 52:24

It's like this thing I have to overcome, whereas when you're like, oh, he's having a computer issue, I'm just going to show up, it's like you're surrendered fully to the moment and to the energy and then it flows. It's like you're in the river, but you don't need a paddle, you know, because the river is just going to guide you. It's like you're just surrendered to where life is taking you. That's how I describe that. I don't know if that feels resonant or not, but Shouldn't we surrender more and more, just to let it flow.

Speaker 3: 52:53

I mean we should, but it's not that easy.

Speaker 2: 52:55

It's not, but I think that's amazing craft we could, as the human being, just let allow. We said that we are going to speak about flow, you know, like how the really life flows.

Speaker 3: 53:09

And I think you know surrender we were talking about transformation. I think surrender is the path of transformation. You know, like the Mark gave the example of divorce, there's a lot of people, even if they know in their bones it's the right decision, they resist the decision. And it's like when you just surrender, that's when that's the first moment you start to experience healing, is the moment you surrender. And then the same thing with when I'm doing mediumship the moment I start to flow is the moment I surrender, the moment I'm just like I guess we're seeing bananas today, I don't know. It's like that's when it starts to come through. But that's amazing that you felt so present. I guess the other way I would see that energetically and I'm curious the way that you see energy the other way I would see that energetically would be that you're not so much in your mind and that you're just more so like in your sacral chakra or in like your soul self.

Speaker 2: 54:06

No, I feel it as because I truly and that's my belief, you know, or that's what I sense is actually that we are connected Me, you, mark, everyone is connected actually to the same source, so there is no real separation. So if Mark knows this, I know it too it's not because Mark knows this I can learn from Mark but actually it's because we are just connected to the source and if you are really very, very present, we actually getting exact the same answers for solutions, what we need. And everyone feels this way, you know, and that's why there is some sort of like people try to explain this in astrology and in numbers. It's just the sort of trying to explain energy flow or energy source from different aspects. But it's the same.

Speaker 2: 55:05

You know, and I think when people are very like, sort of grounded into that, allowing them be that human being, that super intellectual technology, who we are, we are just connected. You know, we are connected, and I think that's how you connect, being medium as well. You're just so connected, you allow yourself to be so connected that you can get through the consciousness and information you need. You know, and like it's the same.

Speaker 2: 55:34

Like how come you can have this gift really to connect maybe somebody you never know before for somebody else and get that information. It's sort of the same, like actually it could be the same function what I did with the computer allowing myself just to be fully connected in that moment it's exactly the same. Yeah, so maybe I have some medium. Yeah, computers, it's like technology right it is Human technology. We allow really to become ourselves. So, mark, you have something about this.

Speaker 4: 56:18

No, I mean it just to me. I agree with both of you. I think that it is the same. Medium means middle, like it's a middleman. You know you're putting yourself in the middle between the person that's still alive and the person that's crossed over, and you're communicating, you know, and so it sounds like you were doing the exact same thing. You're just, you were a trafficker of information. You know, like she's trafficking messages, you know from one being to another and you're trafficking information from one being to another. So, yeah, you're both mediums.

Speaker 4: 56:51

And I think that's also another struggle for a lot of mediums or non mediums is just the terminology of it all Like what, if you can like? So, if you call yourself a medium, right, then what does that mean? That means that almost everyone in that context, he was expecting a message from a loved one, right? And so when you start offering like psychic guidance, it's like I didn't ask for that to be peppered in there, I just want to hear from my loved one, which you obviously are sensitive to the idea that there's a great responsibility and importance behind that, right. But it's also this like okay, to fully express who I am and show up the way that I want to, then I need to make sure, like that I'm incorporating that in these other aspects of me into that. So that's from an additional doula with mediumistic and psychic ability.

Speaker 3: 57:38

Well, when you said that I was a healer, I was like that's the perfect definition for my mediumship, because it's not that I'm not an evidential medium, but it's never my goal to just prove that your loved one's on the other side you know.

Speaker 3: 57:50

Like that's cool if that happens, but my goal is healing of some sort. So there have been people that have come to me for mediumship and they've gotten enough evidence that they're like oh yeah, you picked up on the blue suspenders or whatever it was. But then usually what comes through will be something else, like sometimes there will be an apology that a client would never have expected, because they don't really believe that we evolve as we pass on, or they believe that we just transcend and all of a sudden we're enlightened. And so sometimes those conversations it's like, oh, I thought I was just gonna come and find out that they knew that I got married or whatever, but instead we're gonna have this conversation about how they taught me that I wasn't good enough and that they're sorry for that, and they're seeing it from the other side, and blah, blah, blah. So it is interesting people. It's always my prayer that people show up at the right time when they're ready and that what comes through is gonna be what they need, but often it is surprising what that is.

Speaker 4: 58:54

Yeah, Well, I know we're out of time, but I do like to just mention my biggest takeaway, and for me it was. You talking about this whole idea of being your own advocate and what that looks like, and it's difficult when you decide that you wanna take responsibility for your own life and you want to advocate for yourself. And what does that look like and what does that sound like, and how are people going to take that and how do I manage their response to that? But I think you might agree maybe you won't that at the end it's really. It is a place of peace for you, because you don't need to manage other people's emotions anymore. You don't need to. You're just free to be who you are and you end up spending a lot less energy in general, and then you can use that energy towards what you choose to do, right? So I mean, I hope that maybe not everyone could be a medium or a psychic, but everybody could definitely be their own advocate. So I appreciate you bringing that to the conversation. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 3: 59:55

I think, one other thing I wanna add before we conclude, cause we were talking about being willing to have these conversations and being willing to say you know what, I need a break, or whatever.

Speaker 3: 1:00:06

And I think in general, collectively in the West, but probably globally, we just haven't built enough psychological safety in our relationships and those of us that are trained into people pleasing, like learning it's safe for me to tell this person that I need to take a break and I have communicated well enough with this person that they are not going to make it mean that I don't love them or I don't care, you know. And if they do make it mean that, then I have the skills and the intention to clean that up, to go back and explain hey, like I genuinely did, it's just that my body is different than your body and my body genuinely needed a break in order to be present. So it's like, collectively, we're all working on building that psychological safety to be vulnerable, to be able to advocate for ourselves. When you said, I might agree or I might not, about like, not worrying so much about other people's responses I have gotten better at it, but that's gonna be a lifetime skill for me, just probably, hopefully not, it might be.

Speaker 4: 1:01:17

Yeah, and just being willing to navigate it anyway, go ahead, Agres.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

I think it's just we have already on micro level this things. It's just people don't want to accept that there are micromanagement involved in relationship and feelings as well. You know. Like, for example, you know that you have to go sleep to function on the much better, right, you cannot go without sleep and be present and good at what you do. And I think it's like a micro level right. So people just accepting, of course everyone needs to sleep, you know everyone needs a certain amount to sleep. So why would we wouldn't accept that somebody needs a break for five minutes to come back and be much more engaged into conversation or whatever they are doing, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:02:11

So that's why I think there's more and more of those applications with, like breathing applications or take a pause, right, and all those applications where we actually that they call it mindfulness or I call it like empty mind, not full, because you're actually empty that we're making it even more full, but anyways, we can call it as we want. But I think more and more people will start to accept, as just mentioned, it's will become better and better world for us just to exist as one good mechanism, you know, or the system of human beings.

Speaker 4: 1:02:57

Yeah, one last thing I just want to throw into the ring is that, you know, I think at the end of the day, it boils down to us and our relationship between ourselves and ourself. You know, because, you know, when we find a way to forgive ourselves and allow ourselves, you know, to be who we want to be and to be okay with who we have been, right, then we let everybody else off the hook around us. You know, like, even recently, I've been just trying to practice transparency and honesty, which is really, really difficult, because you know, you've learned your whole life that, as long as you know that, you can use it as a tool to manage other people's emotions, because if I tell you the truth about how I feel about you, then that could come off as destructive, like I could feel responsible for how you feel. And then there's this idea of like being honest and transparent, and that means that you might react unfavorably to that. Right, but that's not my responsibility, right?

Speaker 4: 1:03:54

So then so if I start practicing, you know, honesty, I realize that when somebody else lied around me, by the way, the byproduct of that practice is inner peace, right? So you? And sort of like, like we were talking before about resources and energy, right? So, like you have more energy to expend because you use so much of your energy and resources to protect a lie. You know, like what did I say to who and what are you know?

Speaker 4: 1:04:22

So I think that once I started to practice it, I was like wow, it really is freeing. You don't have to remember what you said to anybody. You could show up, you know, whenever, wherever, and just tell the truth all the time and you'll always be in a good place and you don't have to manage other people's. How are they gonna react if I say this? That's not my responsibility. So it feels good and you use less energy, right.

Speaker 4: 1:04:45

But then what I realized was that when somebody else lied in the past, I used to get really annoyed. In fact, I used to say that everybody around me just don't lie. That's my thing, don't lie. You know like it would make me angry. And now I realized, when I catch somebody in a lie, that it doesn't upset me anymore Because I'm like you're actually the one that's suffering when you tell the lie. In the past, I thought I was the one that was suffering when you told the lie, so I think it comes down to like us and that relationship between us and us, and when we get into that place where we feel good about who we are and make choices that support us like you said personal advocacy then we let everyone just do what they wanna do and let them sort of reap the effects of that in whatever way that looks.

Speaker 3: 1:05:30

Yeah, all the such beautiful observations and I totally agree. Yeah, that was beautiful.

Speaker 4: 1:05:38

Well, thank you so much for that conversation. That was great.

Speaker 3: 1:05:42

Yeah, thank you guys for having me.

Speaker 4: 1:05:44

We will put your website and the show notes and whatever else you send me and so people can find you. What's your website?

Speaker 3: 1:05:52

It's amihagamanlove.

Speaker 4: 1:05:54

Oh, nice yeah, Cool love love.

Speaker 1: 1:05:59

So you have a website that's energy.

Speaker 2: 1:06:01

I have a website that's energy. So it's somebody has that love, somebody has that energy, and I love all those new ways of expression. So obviously the whole website, me too.

Speaker 3: 1:06:15

So amihagamanlove. That's also my Instagram handle. Youtube is at amihagamanlove, so that's where I can be found.

Speaker 4: 1:06:23

Get the love and they will find you, believe me. Thanks again for coming and spending this time with us.

Speaker 3: 1:06:30

Yeah, thank you. This was so fantastic and I love just the heart and mind and soul that you both bring to the conversation. It was a pleasure. Thank you, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:43

Thank you for tuning into. This Is Source. We hope that this conversation has sparked something within you and that you feel inspired to continue exploring your own journey of self-discovery. Remember, you are the source of your own transformation and the possibilities for growth and expansion are infinite. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and family, and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep shining your light and living your truth.