Lisa Tickel The Story of Healing Childhood Trauma and Embracing Self-Awareness

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to. This Is Source, the podcast that invites you to explore the depths of your being and tap into your true potential. This show is all about inspiring you to discover the power within yourself to create a life of purpose, joy and fulfillment. So sit back, relax and let's dive deep into the essence of who you are.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Yeah, lisa, tickle in the house.

Speaker 3: 0:35

I'm so excited yeah yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 2: 0:37

we were just having a little conversation, you know, before we hit record and we started to get a little bit carried away. We realized we need to bring this conversation into the podcast. But it just goes to show you why I was so excited to book you as a guest and why we're so happy to have you here, because we have, you know, a lot of similarities in our journeys and there's a lot of alignment there. So we'd love to get sort of your perspective on things and bring that into the conversation. And so why don't you first tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll get right back into that conversation?

Speaker 3: 1:11

Well, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Yes.

Speaker 3: 1:13

So my name is Lisa Tickle and I am a childhood abuse survivor and thriver. Actually, I like to say I'm victorious. It's been a journey and it's been a journey. I've been on healing journey and growing journey since I was 19 years old. I would say over the last probably 10 years has been significant, and then this last year I actually put the whole timeline together and so, with all that said, have a background of also helping women heal from their childhood abuse or at least start their healing journey. And so for eight years I co-facilitated was called the Childhood Abuse Healing Workshop for Women.

Speaker 3: 1:53

It was a small intimate setting and got to see just great things come out of that. And of course while I'm doing the workshop I'm growing myself as well. So that's kind of my background. I mean, I really have a growing healing background.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Right and it's incredible. You know, obviously you are a healer, you came into heal and we see that archetype has sort of emerged from you. But I think that it was the tumultuous journey that you went through in order to make that discovery and to get to that sense of knowing right. So it's one thing to read a book about something. It's another thing to even take a workshop of it, you know. But when you've lived it yourself and you know it and you don't, it doesn't take much for you to recall what happened or you know what tools you've used to emerge from that. But it's amazing because you've taken what you've been through and you've turned it into an opportunity, a healing tool really to not only heal yourself but to heal other people too. And I can't help but notice that picture behind you. So can we start by talking about that, because it's very this one here.

Speaker 2: 3:01

Yes.

Speaker 3: 3:02

This is me, and this is me. This is me at about four years old, and actually I'll just. It's when the abuse started, so can you?

Speaker 3: 3:11

see, there we go Right. So it's when the abuse started. And so I had that there because it just it kind of reminds me and I use it in my podcast as well and it's just it's when the journey started. And I look back at that and that was put away for years and it was just recently that I pulled that picture out. As soon as I picked, you know, looked at it, hit me, I realized that's when the abuse started. That's how far back it went, to four years old.

Speaker 2: 3:35

So is one of the reasons that you have the pictures, because you honor her and you see her and you hear her and you've integrated her into your life and that's incredible.

Speaker 3: 3:45

Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's so part of my healing journey recently has been talking to little Lisa. This little Lisa and her and I we got a really great relationship and what I came in to do is to protect her and be her voice, because that got shut down on her. And the Lisa that I'm now beginning to work with is the teenage Lisa, because she's the one that really this was really really bad, but the teenage years were the toughest.

Speaker 2: 4:15

Right, and so do you think that it would be true that, as horrible as it was, right that you have found a way to like work with these parts of you, or these sides of you, or these different ages of the inner tile that exists within you, in a way where you can thrive?

Speaker 3: 4:35

Yeah, and it doesn't have the impact that it had on me before. It's actually been empowering. And so once I became the voice and the protector of the little Lisa, there was a shift in me, for sure. There was a shift in confidence. There was yeah, it was huge actually.

Speaker 2: 4:55

And before you made that realization, I think what you said to me when we were having our conversation before this was that you were involved with your church and they needed a volunteer to facilitate the program. And that's really was the beginning, right? I mean, it wasn't like you were actively searching or seeking for any kind of resolution to what happened to you. Right? Take us back to like more specifically at that time where you started the healing process.

Speaker 3: 5:25

Yeah, that's, I thought. When I discovered this program, I had been going to that church for I don't know, three or four years, never even heard of the workshop, which was crazy and came in one night and saw the flyer on my chair and the first thought is, oh, I'm already healed, I've already worked through all the forgiveness and everything and made my attention. It made me stop and think and realize, no, no, I still have some stuff. I'm not sure what it is, and so I did the workshop, and what I realized in there is although because my abusers was my family basically it was my mom, my dad and my brother and it was physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and I had worked through a lot of the forgiveness with my brother and at that point no longer had a relationship with him, so I wasn't dealing with that anymore.

Speaker 3: 6:13

But what I didn't realize is the journey began of my healing of my parents, and that's when I realized, oh, they didn't protect me. I mean, there was a whole list of things that they didn't and didn't do. I just didn't realize it. And so that was the eye opener for me is realizing, yes, I had forgiven my brother and worked through a lot of that. But I had a whole other journey. I had to go on.

Speaker 2: 6:35

And were your parents alive at the time?

Speaker 3: 6:37

No, no. I lost my mom when I was 16. And then I lost my dad in 2001. And this was probably 2006 or so.

Speaker 2: 6:46

Right. So that is pretty remarkable because it just gives hope to so many people who think well, if I really want to be healed by the wrongs of other people, I need to track them down and need to make them understand what they did to me and I need some type of an apology. And I think what you're saying is it's not necessary that the healing can be done by you essentially Correct. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about that.

Speaker 3: 7:15

Yeah, the healing is definitely for you, just like the forgiveness is for you. The forgiveness is not diminishing or downplaying anything that the abusers have done to you. It is simply not holding onto that pain and that anger that tears you up, that affects you personally, and so I am completely losing my track of mind.

Speaker 2: 7:36

I just completely lost it Sorry you guys are going to talk this right, It'll probably pop back in.

Speaker 3: 7:43

And this is something that I discovered recently about the abuse. It'll sometimes make you do that, and so it's really frustrating. I'm working on it. Sorry about that. Yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 7:52

I mean, that's your conscious mind, right? What I've learned is that there's a gatekeeper at the conscious mind. It's his or her job to make sure that you don't say or do certain things that are going to upset you, and that's how we've learned. It's like a defensive mechanism or a survival mechanism for us to be able to move forward with having these things inside of us that are unresolved and unhealed. And we push it down and sometimes the gatekeeper is like, well, maybe we don't want to bring that up, and so boom, we lose that conscious mind to where we wanted to go. So that's completely normal and yes, and the more we do this work, I feel like that happens less and less, but I 100% know exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 8:35

They're frustrating.

Speaker 2: 8:36

Yeah, but interestingly, I've realized that a lot of parents and I don't know if this was for you specifically, but a lot of adults will say that there's clearly some childhood trauma deep underneath the surface and they know it. They know that things just weren't right, something wasn't right, but their mind will not allow them to make the connection between what happened and that's not okay. And my mom or my dad is the reason why that's not okay, and what I've learned is that that's part of the conditioning. So if we go back to when we were a child and we're robbed of a lot of opportunities to express ourselves emotionally because it's just hard on the parents, so if you have parents that haven't really found a way to heal themselves and deal with their own emotions, then when their children start to emote, it automatically triggers something inside of them. Well, they don't want to feel that. So their first thing, their reaction, is to shut you down, like stop crying, knock it off, I'll give you something to cry about. You know how are you going to be upset about this, and it's just basically a reaction. That's how they respond is just reacting like I don't want you to feel this way because emotionally, I can feel what you feel and I don't let myself feel this way, so I'm going to shut you down.

Speaker 2: 9:58

And you know we're children but we just we're doing the best we can, we use whatever tools we can to figure it out and to move forward. When we become adults, you know, we're essentially like 40, 50, 60 year old children who really don't know how to manage our emotions and we don't even think we're allowed to. We don't think. You know, like all the things that were taken away from us at childhood. You know, like what I was just saying, no one shows up at our front door and gives us permission to now do and feel all those things and even if they did, we wouldn't, we wouldn't even know how to like integrate that into our life.

Speaker 3: 10:32

Right, where do we start, and for me, my view started so young that it was just I call it part of my foundation. So now I'm having to undo that and what you know and one of the things that I realized recently is that I I know my voice got shut down, but what I didn't realize is I didn't share. I just had a really dear friend here and she came to visit and she's known me since I was 15. So she has witnessed some of this. Right Before I went to lunch with her, I thought I don't remember having conversations with her about my abuse or anything like, and I started thinking. So I asked her. I said Trisa, before we get going with lunch, let me ask you this Did I ever have a conversation with you about my abuse? And she said no, you never did Should. I knew you didn't get along with your brother and she goes, because I lived with you guys for a short time, I witnessed his screaming and his craziness, but she said no, you never said anything.

Speaker 3: 11:28

And that just goes with getting shut down, right, and I don't know where the message came to me, not to say it, but it obviously was a big part of me and that was the conversation I had with my son as well. As you know, I'm going to be coming out with a podcast and I'm going to be sharing my story. I realized I've never shared it with you and I'm welcome, you know you're welcome to ask me questions. I can share whatever before the podcast comes out. You know and I just that was just one of those conditions, that I don't think anything was ever said to me, it was just a belief system I have.

Speaker 2: 12:02

Thank you, and it's the way certain things are said to you as a child. You know we might not remember the exact words, but it's basically those things of like not welcoming, like you bringing your emotions or how you think about things or how you feel about things to the table, like that's really that's not invited here, it's not welcome here, right.

Speaker 2: 12:23

It's like things are hard enough as it is. We don't need you bringing your nonsense to the table. So why don't you just keep your stuff to yourself over there, because we have enough to deal with, you know, and that's why that happens, and absolutely we don't share it with our friends, like. The most remarkable thing about this for me has been like I'm in my mid 40s and I only learned within the past year about any of this. So you know I won't go through the whole story because I've said it many times, but I went through a tragedy in 2001. And you know I experienced depression and anxiety and panic attacks and all those things that come with you know, post traumatic stress and going through a tragedy like that. And it took me probably like seven years to get to a point where I had healed from that. And by healing from that I mean that I could, I wasn't triggered by it anymore. It doesn't mean that I'm sadness or you know I'll always miss the person that I lost, right. But if somebody brought it up when I wasn't prepared, I was able to respond to it, be okay with it and have a conversation, whereas in the beginning I was like I'm good, I'm okay, everything's good and then boom, somebody would bring it up and I just kind of lose control. So it was like I was triggered and I had no idea how to manage those emotions, right.

Speaker 2: 13:45

And so my story, I guess you could say, was my journey of 2001 till 2007, 2008, where I learned how to successfully spiritually, emotionally and physically heal from that tragedy right, but that was 2007. And then I got married in 2008. Then we started having kids, right, and so every two years we had another kid and, as you know, both of you are parents. So you know that your children bring out the best in you and they bring out the worst in you. And what was difficult for me was that I had written a book about my spiritual journey and healing from everything that happened to me. So I considered myself like part of myself. Was this spiritually evolved person that could manage life differently than other people? And I had this understanding about consciousness and metaphysics and where we came from and where we're going after this, and I thought I could handle the world. I was good, I was in good shape, I didn't have any of the issues that I had after 9-11. You know, like I didn't suffer from physical things, the emotional things.

Speaker 2: 14:48

But then when I got married and started having kids, it was like all this stuff started coming out of me. And it wasn't until 2020, 2022, I guess, when did we start Agris? When did we start our program together? Was it this year? Yeah, this year, so it hasn't even been that long. And one of the first things so I'll tell you in a second how we met and kind of how that all rolled out but basically the program was an introduction to this philosophy, which is that we all have an inner child inside of us and that inner child has needs and wounds and the only person that can go in there and meet that child's needs and soothe and heal those child's wounds is us. And so, you know, I was like I don't know about that, like I had heard a little bit about inner child work, but nothing really stood out. And, to be quite honest with you, lisa, I didn't think I had any issues. I really didn't. I was like, well, yeah, there were a lot of parts of my childhood I wish didn't exist, but I really wasn't at a point where I could honestly say like, oh, I'm messed up and it's because of my childhood. You know, I really, even in my first book, I really talk much about that because I didn't even see it as an issue. And so now there's this idea oh, you know, if you have blockages in your life, that you can, you know, do this inner exploration and you can access parts of yourself that are okay and soothe and heal those parts of you. Well, half rolling my eyes and half being willing to do it, I decided I committed to this program, so I'm gonna give it a shot.

Speaker 2: 16:18

And that's when the journey began and I realized, holy crap, there's all these parts of me that are not okay. And now I had permission to go there. I had the tools of what to do once I got there and I realized like it's okay to feel the things, that I feel it's okay to say that that was not okay. You know, like those things were not okay. And what I realized because, by the way, I'm still on the journey today and I only work with other people, but I work with myself like all the time and I'm really surprised, like I was even doing a session last night with myself and I realized there's a real, I have a real hard time linking those two things together because you want.

Speaker 2: 16:58

There's a part of you that feels guilty and is almost scared to say that the things you did to me are not okay and that there's like really strong distasteful feelings towards that person that hurt you emotionally, spiritually, verbally, right. And I realized you could track that back to the conditioning that you went through, cause I remember I don't know what it was like for you, but for me, with religion and stuff, it was like honor your mother and father. They're the most important things you know, like you have to love your parents, you have to accept them, you have to abide by all those rules and at the same time that's part of your conditioning. And then you get to the point where you're an adult and you're in your forties, let's just say for me, and I'm saying, well, all these things happened to me and they're not okay. But then there's this part of me that's short circuiting, because it's like, but I'm not allowed to point the finger at this person, I have to honor this person.

Speaker 2: 17:55

I love them unconditionally. And I thank God for this work and these conversations, cause I realized you can do both. You can do both. You can say out loud that these things that happened to me are not okay and that things that this person that did to me are wrong, and you can feel all the emotions that you did and the life stuff that feels so long, and then you can get to a point of compassion and understanding of why they did the things that they did to you. You know what I mean. So the sort of the byproduct of this process is you do get to a point where you can forgive them and you can conditionally love them, but I think you have to allow yourself to feel those feelings of no, I don't like you, I don't like what you did to me, this is not okay, this is, even though it was normalized, it was not normal, you know, and it was healthy and it was not okay, and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 18:49

And then the last part of that and I'll give you a chance to chime in is that it helps you and your parenting and this is where we're just about to talk about for my live on air. Was that? Then we have a chance to go. Holy shit, maybe I did a little bit of that you know with, or maybe a lot of that you know with my own kids. It's never too late to generate or start up, ignite that conversation with them. You're right, you were just about to say that you one of the things that you went through in this healing process was, like maybe I need to have this conversation with my own son.

Speaker 3: 19:21

I've had several conversations with him because you know, I go back to this, last year was really big for me because I put kind of the whole timeline together of my childhood abuse, which helped me understand a lot of things. But yeah, I know I recognize one of the things is that I was in survival mode. I was in survival mode my entire childhood and all of my adult life until maybe five years ago and I had never realized that until recently. And in survival mode, you know, we do things that we wouldn't do outside of survival mode. And you know, going back to my abuse when I was 18, and I'll link this together but I remember thinking I'm not gonna have children because I recognized I was abused and I recognized that it could be carried on and I wasn't gonna do that to my children and it broke my heart. It broke my heart and I just did a lot of thinking and of course I ended up having a son. But I just remember when they put him in my arms, I will never do anything on purpose to hurt this child and I did a lot of good things and there was a lot of things I did to protect my son where I wasn't protected, but my son lived in a home of strife.

Speaker 3: 20:35

My son lived in a home with a mother who is in survival mode and a father and I won't get a lot into him, but he was also in survival mode and so it made for an unstable environment for him. And so, yeah, I did had a few conversations with him, and when I was visiting him a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago, yeah, I had a real point blank conversation with him about it and told him I am really sorry, you grew up in a home where your parents screamed and yelled at each other and there was constant strife. I mean, I was, I laid it out, and my son, of course, as I'm sharing this with him, I'm crying because I have some grief in that and my sweet son reaches over to comfort me and I'm like no, no, no, no, honey, no, you are not to comfort me, I am here for you. And he just looked at me and said mom, you did a lot of things right. That was huge.

Speaker 2: 21:34

Right, yeah, that is huge. I think that's one of the hardest realizations that we come to as adults, especially as parents, when we go through this healing process and we uncover all the things that kind of we went through and we worked through on that. Sort of the next thing is shoot. Why didn't I do this 10 years ago? Why didn't I do this 20 years ago?

Speaker 1: 21:53

I could have seen a potential.

Speaker 2: 21:55

So much. And I have the same answer for everyone that brings that up, and that's like look, you get there when you're supposed to get there People that are affected by the circumstances they gain something from it too. I always say that isn't it better for a child to go through something like this, especially when they have parents that really haven't done the healing work themselves and then, as a result, sort of that spells over onto the children, right? But then they have an awakening one day right.

Speaker 2: 22:24

They get to a point where they have this conscious realization this stuff happened to me and I can fix it and I can heal it right. All of a sudden they're a different person and they're reacting to people different and they can bring the table and blah, blah, blah. And for a child to witness that, I think, is so empowering and so amazing, because even if they haven't already gone through a lot of challenges in life, they're going to at some point and then they'll all of a sudden have access to. I remember when mom was like this, when she was triggered all the time, when she lost her cool, when she took things out on me, and then she had this awakening and she had this like she learned how to deal with that and she got through it and she's not like that anymore. So I can handle this Right. I mean so like there's that's sort of wrapped up inside of this.

Speaker 3: 23:10

Absolutely yeah. I mean, we are an example for our children, right? And I remember my son he was probably about eight years old. This was an eye-opener for me, and I think a lot of kids think this way too, and I was in the car with him and my father was in the car and my son adored my father.

Speaker 3: 23:29

They adored each other. It was very sweet and I don't remember the conversation we were having, but it was a conversation about adults being wrong sometimes, because I was raised with the absolute belief that adults are always right. You never argue with them. You listen to them period.

Speaker 3: 23:45

And I just remember thinking at that point I was an adult and I witnessed that no, adults make a lot of mistakes. And so I just remember I said well, you know, honey, I make mistakes. And I remember looking at my son's face and he was like shocked. And then my father spoke and he said well, yeah, grandpa makes mistakes too. And he was sat back and he said really, you guys make mistakes. And it was so funny because I remember thinking that myself as a child, even though I'm in the middle of this abuse and it's confusing and it's painful and it's lonely, I still thought that they were right.

Speaker 2: 24:24

Of course.

Speaker 3: 24:25

So did my son, and so I was very clear with them. I said, honey, I will always tell you when I'm wrong. And I have stuck with that. I promised them I would never lie to them and I would speak up when I've made a mistake.

Speaker 2: 24:36

Right. And the crazy thing is like what's the story we tell ourselves? If what you're saying is true, and they're always right and the abuse is coming from them, well then I must deserve it Exactly exactly.

Speaker 3: 24:48

Exactly, and then you top that off so you can understand the mindset there. Then you top that off with me, where I had my brother literally look at me when I was about 11 years old and tell me that nobody liked me and I believed him. We were having a really simple conversation, like you and me we're not. There's no anger, there's no conflict, and he just said well, you know, mom and dad's friends don't like you. You realize that and I remember being heartbroken and believing him 100%, right right.

Speaker 3: 25:17

It just solidified. So I spent my adult life living like that, like nobody likes me, right, that's been a tough one to change around.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Yeah, and then, and Agres, I really want to pull you in. So the last thing I'm going to say is it becomes the voice in your head Correct, and you think you know we need to understand that that voice in our head is. We were not the originators of that, you know it starts to become so familiar that we think it's our thoughts. I don't like you. Look at you. You screwed up again. You're a failure. Nobody likes you.

Speaker 2: 25:47

Look at you know you filter life through that. You think it's your voice, but the truth is it's not your voice, right? No, your real voice, your divine voice, does not speak to you in that language at all. No, your divine voice is saying I love you, you're beautiful, everybody loves you, you're here on purpose. Every time you walk into a room, somebody's blessed, we're so grateful that you're here. You know like that's your real voice, Right? And so we have to bridge that gap between that voice that we adopted, you know, that self voice that's sort of speaking the language of self-hatred, right, which will adopt somebody else, and bridge the gap between that and self-love, right. And getting to one point. But you're right, it's not easy, it's a process and first of all, we have to know that it's worth it. We have to know why we should spend our time doing that and, second of all, we need to be doing it long enough for it to do its work for the time to do it Right.

Speaker 3: 26:43

And the key to that is self-awareness, right? Because when I was in survival mode, I was completely unaware, right? I was just going from one fire to the next. That's how I looked at oh, here's another fire, I gotta take care of that. Oh, here's another. I looked for them. Right right, so becoming self-aware slows that down.

Speaker 2: 27:00

Absolutely.

Speaker 4: 27:06

I'm here.

Speaker 3: 27:08

Listening in.

Speaker 4: 27:09

Yeah, no, that's, that's big part of me listening in, but now I'm just I'm really resonating with trying to reflect on everything you talked about. You know guys, so and I think, I sort of feel this way.

Speaker 4: 27:25

That's, yes, you know, like we choose our life purposely as a source, so we knew where we are coming in and we have to start to love or life, or destiny. You know, we, we, and if we are going deep into suffering, in pain, in fear and all those very low frequency feelings, you know it means that you have opportunity to go really other side, other side because we are in. Yeah, it's, it's all about duality right in this, in this world, and it means that you meant to go and become who you become today.

Speaker 4: 28:10

Well the person who empowers people, and I want to go to this part of conversation where we can talk about about what does this all circumstances made you today and who you are today? Because you are empowering people right right now, you know, because you can resonate in that really beautiful frequency and be that voice here to empower, so I just wanted to take you there now and ask how is it? What, what, what is? What do you feel? What is your purpose right now, out of circumstances you lived through?

Speaker 3: 28:51

My purpose is to help others shorten their pain. Seriously, what is?

Speaker 4: 28:57

that? No, I mean if you can expand on this, you know, because I think it's it's very important you know how you, how you're doing this, what's how, how you work with people and how you give them that help in in terms of healing and it's.

Speaker 3: 29:15

It's funny because I really feel like it's my gift. If that sounds kind of silly, because it just comes so kind of natural, it's hard for me to like and I'm working on this to be more articulate about it. But you know, I just hate seeing people in pain, I hate seeing suffering. But I also know that I only can do so much and put the stuff out there and it's up to the person to grab it and run with it, right? But you know, my purpose, I believe, really is to help others men or women, it doesn't matter, you know, help them become the person that they were originally supposed to be. That's kind of how I look at it. You know, when we were talking Mark, I know we were talking about I don't believe you ever fully kill. I believe you just learn how to manage it and you learn tools and tricks and ways that help you make it. And I think that that's what I can do for others, is I can help them learn how to become self aware and go deep and heal and live a full life and not live suffering.

Speaker 3: 30:19

I spent so many years suffering. When I look back on it now, I spent more than half my life suffering, literally suffering, and there weren't the opportunities that there are here today. Then I had to figure this stuff out on my own and I know, if I, like I said, if I can just shorten anybody's pain, if I can help them have aha moments, if I can help them realize, like for me, the thing that I learned this year, that was really huge for me. I had people telling me all the time oh, the abuse wasn't your fault, the abuse wasn't your fault, okay. Well, yeah, you're right, the abuse wasn't my fault. I finally got it in my heart. I finally got that the abuse was not my fault. And it is empowering and that's what I want for others. If that's what they need, I want to impart, help impart that on them, whatever it is they need, to help them begin their healing journey or continue it. It's all custom right, because we're all different.

Speaker 2: 31:16

Right, yeah, yeah, we all have a different story, but on one level, we really we all came from the same place, we all returned to the same place.

Speaker 2: 31:25

And, to address this point, you know, if we picked our parents and we picked the location where we were born and we picked all that right and we know this, by the way, from human design and gene keys like we know that if we have somebody's birthday and we have somebody's the location where they were born, and that there is a likelihood of a path you know, like and and things that we should be going through and what we're going to learn as a result of this exact sort of mathematical formula that we came up with before we took our first breath, right, but I think, at the end of the day, you know, we're all trying to get back where we started.

Speaker 2: 32:05

So I get what you're saying, you know and I think that you know, when it comes to love, like you know, aggress when you were saying this before, it makes so much sense because if we're, let's just say for lack of better terms we're in heaven, right where, in this place, that we all started before we came into this physical incarnation and there are no limits. There's no limits to how much we can love. There's no limits to what we can create. You know, you can just instantaneously there, there's no limits. But you could learn a lot from having limitations, right? So we?

Speaker 2: 32:40

We can really work around our nation and we learn we can really know something through its opposite. Right, that's what duality is, right. So it's like to really understand love. We understand the opposite of love, right, the life full of suffering is a life full of really understanding love. You know, like your life's path, what's really your initiation into that like, so that you could have that deep understanding. And once you have it, you can't unknow it, you can't. The bell is wrong, you can't unring the bell. So now you have this, nobody ever could convince you of what you you know, the opposite of what you've experienced and what you know deep in your soul right now right.

Speaker 2: 33:21

You've you understand the contrast of suffering and not suffering, and so, yes, the next logical thing would be now I want to share this gift with other people, all those other people that are in the world that are suffering and don't know there's a way out of it, and don't even know where it started from, not alone, let alone the tools that you need to sort of get past it.

Speaker 3: 33:44

So yeah, yeah, I'm just, I can just remember, like you're just saying you can't get past it, and I just remember when I would deal with something I couldn't see past, I would just see, like literally this wall in front of me.

Speaker 2: 33:54

Right.

Speaker 3: 33:55

Okay, how am I going to get through this wall? Right, and I would just kept trying things until I finally busted a hole in the wall and got through or climbed over it.

Speaker 2: 34:05

That's so I can resonate with that.

Speaker 4: 34:10

I don't know what I'm going to do, but I think it's a lot. No, for me it's like yeah, we know that we are in duality and I think there is this beautiful example and I don't have the pencil with me, you know, but mark has right, mark, if you show the pencil.

Speaker 3: 34:26

I like how you explain that. To mark about the suffering and the opposite.

Speaker 4: 34:28

You know, if you hold the pencil in the middle Right and we can call one side suffering, another is. It's a universal love, for example, right, but that's the same, it's one, it's this, it's still the same pencil.

Speaker 3: 34:43

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 34:45

And I think that's that's the beauty, and that's when and I like when, when you said you know, like that that you don't feel that, it's like total healing in a sense, because basically, I think that's that's what it is you know, you became aware that you actually holding that pencil with both sides and you are aware when you feel that side, another side, but you understand, I am the pencil, I'm, I am the one I can actually approach both ends whenever I want so, and that's we, we call it Awareness, and that's where we can say, okay, I'm healed because I'm aware of both sides now, so I know how is to live in suffering and blissfulness, you know. So I think that's what actually is about humanity. You know we just have to become aware how we feel or life, and that there is not one or another, because it exists at the same time, everything right, right interesting.

Speaker 3: 35:48

I've never heard that explanation. I like that.

Speaker 2: 35:50

That's really cool and a lot of it too, I think, is kind of back to what you were saying before, lisa, about being able to express ourselves. The thing is is like we are adults and we don't, we don't allow ourselves to feel certain emotions and that's because we were conditioned from a long time ago Like you're not supposed to, like bring your emotions to the table, you know, like no one wants to hear about if you're sad or if you're angry.

Speaker 2: 36:16

Yeah if you're crying. It's like, stop crying. If you're angry, stop being annoyed. You know like aren't you grateful for anything that I give you? And you know, so we become involved and we don't allow ourselves to feel any of these emotions, and so repress those emotions and then it's not acceptable and it's not healthy for us to feel these things ourselves.

Speaker 2: 36:40

So we are constantly trying to project it onto other people, like I'm not the one with the problems. Look at this problem, all right person over here, like they're the bad one. You know I can't keep their stuff together. And so we go through life, you know, sifting and trying to find, putting a spotlight on everybody else's flaws, because we're not willing to feel that ourselves and what we take ownership. I think this is what kind of both of what you were saying is that, like when you allow yourself to take ownership over the parts of you that are not okay, or like have these sort of emotional experiences, they don't control your life anymore because these emotions are short-lived. You know it's like it's like a screen in a window. The wind passes through the screen, the screen doesn't hold on to the wind. You know the screen feels the, the wind move past it and that's it.

Speaker 2: 37:29

But we as human beings, we're like oh well, what's this feeling? Well, I'm not supposed to feel this feeling. I'm not supposed to feel it right now, and we end up in an attempt to push it away, pushes back towards us. So we're like we're resisting is persisting, and then we have this thing and we have to do something with it. And then you know your wife comes home from work, or your husband comes home from work, or your kid comes home from school and does something which is like a minute thing, it's not right big deal, but we unleash that anger and that frustration or whatever it is, that highly charged emotion, on to that other person.

Speaker 2: 38:03

You know it doesn't make any sense to them. You know no over the top get the crime. You know right sense and maybe you've been in that process triggered them Right, and then they use words as weapons to get back at you. And now you're in a bottle with this person. That all started because we didn't allow ourselves to feel something that could have been, that could have been very Slipped, you know. And then we the life of suffering and turmoil, surrounded by people we don't like and don't want to be around, and it's really because we don't know how to. You know we skipped that part of our childhood development where we were allowed to feel certain things right.

Speaker 2: 38:44

It shows up as adults. So it's, it's remarkable. So I think that's sort of, in a sense, what you were both saying. And also, lisa, when you were saying about Really fully heal, I was seeing that visually as like the scar you know, like, yeah, always be there, yeah, it's in the way of right, like in our life it's like oh, here's my scar. Like I have a scar right here.

Speaker 2: 39:07

Yeah and my kids go like where'd you get that scar, dad? Now I could talk about that story and it's an interesting story, but it doesn't generate any kind of sadness or anger or pain. But there are a lot of us that are walking around with scars until we introduced to the healing process Right that they do get in the way and we don't allow ourselves to feel those feelings and we don't allow ourselves to process it. So it shows up and then we project it on to everything else. That's not.

Speaker 3: 39:35

It's not really where we're feeling the pain interesting because it has, as you were telling, that it reminded me when I was in Idaho and we talked and I think I don't know if I shared with you that I got triggered when I was up there- yeah.

Speaker 3: 39:48

Excuse me.

Speaker 3: 39:49

And and so again the self-awareness Right, because I lived a life of triggers and didn't even realize it and blew it like what you just did that example I can't tell you how many times I did that and and so something happened and it caused a trigger and I just I slowed everything down and I went wait a minute, I'm gonna think about this because the what I realized is the thoughts going through my head made no logical sense.

Speaker 3: 40:15

The stuff coming out of my mouth made no logical sense whatsoever, and I realized I am fully triggered. And I turned to my husband and I said I am clearly being struck, I'm clearly being triggered, and I said I'm not gonna do the stupid crazy thing that my mind is telling me to do, which is Would be not taking care of myself, and Instead I'm gonna do the opposite. And so we're gonna go do this. And he just smiled and we did what we needed to do, but I was in a safe place too, but I but it was the first time that I walked through the trigger, from the moment I realized I was being triggered, through the entire thing and then processing it that day what you just described is the result of this healing process, because you're creating a gap between the experience, what's happening and how.

Speaker 2: 40:59

You Right to what's happening and, and you're right, there's the adult Lisa and there's the childhood Lisa, and if you don't listen to and meet the needs of the child, child Lisa, then that's when she uses that opportunity to voice what you know, or to sort of have her tantrum or whatever needs to happen in order for her to express or to emote right. So you know when, when you, when these situations happen which they do right, like, no matter what, like I think it you know there's endless opportunities for us to be triggered. There's endless opportunities for us to unleash a part of us that is not okay about something that happened in the past. And I think in the beginning of the healing process, we do the heavy lifting and we take care of the big stuff that happens.

Speaker 2: 41:42

Right you could spend the rest of our life, you know, and more things will. Always, I think, things will bubble up to the surface until our last breath, right? What you're talking about in that, in that story, is that's how we like. That's how we, in a mature way, handle life situations like it's like, okay, I am not going to go in that direction. I know there's a part of me that would have in the past, right, and I know that that's only going to make this situation worse. So we're going to do something different here. That's it. That is why we, in a nutshell, that's why we do the healing work.

Speaker 3: 42:15

That's why we do it and that is so empowering, realizing you have that choice in front of you. Right, that was so empowering for me and healing right, exactly because my first reaction was to do something not very nice to myself, not take care of myself, go to that old thing of you know. Self-care goes out the window. Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 2: 42:37

I'm nodding to Agra to bring him back, because I know sometimes I get carried away, but I Think it's just the proof of of that.

Speaker 4: 42:48

There is my theory about everything. You know that Circumstances, we want or not, they are going to happen. Circumstances, you know. All all we can choose is how we integrate or emotion in that circumstance. You know, and I think this is what exactly happened. You know, you just took a pause, you recognized what happening right now with me. You know, with all that, probably the trigger which running the old program within you and you became aware of it. So you choose to respond in that way, you Want to respond. So I think that's all it it is. You know, it's all it is what we do as a human beings. You know, we, that we come, we meet those events and we that's our free will how we are going to integrate Emotion into the that events. You know and I think that's beauty, how you did it and and that's for me this is clearly a healing process when we became aware of how we respond to circumstances.

Speaker 4: 43:54

And I mean and you are emotionally Cleared. You know, you're emotionally amazed and and every time, the next time something similar going to happen with you, similar events, you Maybe you will don't need even be consciously there anymore, because it is going to happen automatically.

Speaker 3: 44:16

Yeah, I know, because I was just thinking like I could just remember, like literally sitting in the car and we're, I was having this conversation in my head and it was just like it was chaos. And the one thing that I've worked really hard on and I am very successful at is creating a lot of peace around me and Serenity, like our home, is our sanctuary, you know, and I do that for myself, my office, I make it my saying, you know, and so that's, I think, what made me immediately recognize it is it was just a lot of chaos and it was just it was negative, you know, and I was like that's, I think, what I went. Oh, that caught my attention. I went wait a minute, because it's different than the way I live my life now. Right, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 44:54

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually, because I think that is the reason why a lot of people end up into multist relationships as adults. They go from one relationship to the next and they they're like I don't know why I keep repeating the same cycle, I keep meeting the same type of person, and it's for the reason that you just mentioned because you're used to chaos, your baseline Is chaos, and so therefore, you, you don't stand the chance at being in a relationship with someone who doesn't have all this emotional baggage, because you wouldn't trust somebody like that, because you're normal is chaos, and so if somebody showed up without that, you would not trust them. It would not be familiar to you at all, and you, we seek what's familiar to us as human beings, right?

Speaker 3: 45:39

Right, I had a really great question asked on a podcast, and it was a podcast about domestic violence, and she said if left unhealed, would a would a person with childhood abuse enter into domestic violence relationships? I said, absolutely, it'll just look different, right, and that's exactly what I did. It was a different type of abuse, it was just different, you know. But yeah, that's that's true that I was drawn to that chaos, because that's all I knew, and that transition going from chaos to peace took a while and was really uncomfortable, really uncomfortable for a while. And now I'm to the point where I seek after the calm, the peace, and when it's in my life, I have to be really careful because it can trigger me real quickly. So I have to. You know, sometimes chaos comes into your life and you can't control it. So I have to control this and manage this so that that doesn't overtake me because I so quickly can just give into it. That's what I recognize too, is I quickly fall into that if I'm not careful.

Speaker 2: 46:36

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 46:36

I think there is a beautiful if we consider chaos as a low frequency or or sort of dark side, you know, or shadow side which you actually can recognize between you right now easily. Right, I think that the higher frequency was, or the gift out of chaos was, stillness. Yes if I, if I'm correct, you know and I see that's, you know, when you feel that you feel that chaos and you become still.

Speaker 1: 47:09

Yes.

Speaker 4: 47:09

I'm still and you like, okay, what's going on. You know, you become the, that the I. You know, for me, stillness is like you, like a buddhist statue, you know, like that, you just Become still and you feel everything. What's going?

Speaker 3: 47:24

on. That thing can move you.

Speaker 4: 47:25

Yeah, and even that chaos Is sort of like what should I do, because it's become still stillness and like, oh my god, you know, like let's disappear, you know utilize that.

Speaker 3: 47:39

True, that's because that's there's more power and stillness than chaos.

Speaker 4: 47:46

Probably that is one of your life work, you know.

Speaker 3: 47:49

Yes, and trust me, that's been a challenge, because I'm not one that wants to sit still. Usually I have to make myself sit still.

Speaker 4: 48:01

You know, when the Mark had this beautiful analogy and you Mark said that if we are in constant chaos, right, and we go into cycle, you know to integrate.

Speaker 4: 48:13

Like we actually want to integrate stillness, but we all the time meeting all the circumstances with chaos and actually I don't think that we are meeting somebody like as well, chaotic Actually we are keep meeting ourselves as chaotic persons all the time, you know, and we actually didn't met or stillness on other side, right? So I think it's beautiful. You know, Like I would love to learn from your stillness, because I think stillness is very necessary for humanity. You know to know how to be that stillness and know that things comes to you instead of you have to run to everything and everyone at the same time.

Speaker 3: 48:58

And that's the old me that, in the chaos, that was me too. Because I didn't feel loved, I chased after, you know, and then I had abandonment issues. So what did I do? I didn't get still and just I would chase after. I had to find somebody to love me, I had to find somebody that liked me.

Speaker 4: 49:14

It was just this constant chaos, yeah, constant chaos, and actually when you become still that everything comes to you naturally and actually in the right time, in the right moment. This is how I see it, and I think it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful.

Speaker 3: 49:32

It is, it's great. On this end, I'll tell you.

Speaker 2: 49:36

What's interesting to me is that the awareness and the stillness parts these are big themes in a lot of the spiritual works that are floating around. You could read a lot of the heavy works that are out there to help people and I went through it. I really read everything I could get my hands on, took every workshop and it was did a lot of mindfulness training, studied in meditation, just trying to really understand this, but I didn't realize. For me what was the missing piece was doing the healing work on my inner child first.

Speaker 2: 50:08

All that needed to get out of the way Because now it really makes sense to me, like now it really makes sense why you wanna be still in the chaos and why you would wanna be aware of everything that's going on, why you would wanna be aware? Because when someone teaches you about awareness, paying attention to what's around you, well, what if you don't like what's around you? And what I mean by that is what if you don't like you, you know. So who the hell is gonna sit still? Who wants to sit still with someone they don't like? So?

Speaker 2: 50:41

And for me, that was just a really big part of the puzzle that needed that was missing. For me, it was like I had so much to figure it out, but I didn't realize that I didn't like myself. In fact, not only did I not like myself, I hated myself Me too. So it was like I was willing to learn everything I could to not suffer anymore. I was even willing to stand up and help other people out.

Speaker 2: 51:02

But there was a big part of the puzzle for me, which was, you know, there was this part of me that needed to be healed and to understand that part of me that hated myself was not even me, you know, like it was. Just that was created a long time ago from somebody else who actually didn't even hate me, they just hated themselves and they learned themselves through their parents who didn't like themselves, through that, you know. So it's generational, it's like something that's passed on and passed on, and then all of a sudden we show up. But to me it's just incredible that we get to a point in our lives where not only we can, you know, become aware and sit with all this and do the healing and we heal ourselves, but we also heal things that have happened before we even got here, and then we pass that healing on to the generation afterwards, yeah, so I would say like life is good, life is really, really good.

Speaker 2: 51:53

And even that you know, agres, and I have had so many conversations about this, where you know and I know what you mean, lisa, because I've gone through this myself it's like you're so used to catastrophizing everything You're so used to like when anything bad to happen, because that's where your fight or flight mode is.

Speaker 2: 52:13

You know like that's hard and also your self worth is tied into that right. So if you can fix a problem, then you must be worthy of something. So we become addicted to problems. We become addicted to things falling apart because then we're useful. You know like.

Speaker 3: 52:27

Right, then we have a purpose.

Speaker 2: 52:29

Yeah, and we were doing this work right, and so we were having these conversations and I was letting things go, healing it, letting it go, healing, letting it go. And then you finally get to a point where you're like, well, shit, everything is really good, I have no literally have no problems, you know, and. But you have to get to a point where you feel good about you, that you're even willing to live in a space where everything is okay and that you have no problems, because if your self worth is tied into being the fixer of problems, you don't want to live in a world where there's no problems. You know, like, like.

Speaker 2: 53:05

I'm complaining about it, because you know it gives you some type of self worth and your self worth is what generates your self love. So you kind of need everything to fall apart so that you can fix it, so that you can feel good about yourself. You know, and I was like I remember getting to this point where I think I messaged you, agres, and I was like my life is really good, everything is perfect, everything is unfolding perfectly. I have everything that I've always wanted in my life, you know, and I feel really good about that, you know. But I think a lot of healing had to happen to get to that point.

Speaker 3: 53:37

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah, think about too, I was just, I always was busy. This goes along the lines of both you've been talking about, like you know. Oh, how's it going? Oh, I'm busy, oh, I'm busy, I'm busy, I was busy, I was busy, busy, busy, busy. Oh, I'm just busy. Can we get together? Oh, no, I'm too busy. I was just always busy and I was running from me. That's what I was doing 100%.

Speaker 4: 54:00

If you look from human design standpoint, you know that actually, that stillness comes out of root chakra, which is actually the pressure, the pressure from us when things start to happen. It, root is the place where creation comes, you know, and it comes. You know, it can come out of stillness or it can come out of chaos. Right, that's true, it's our choice.

Speaker 3: 54:33

True.

Speaker 4: 54:34

And it's the same. It's the same place, you know.

Speaker 3: 54:37

It is. It just feels better on one than the other.

Speaker 4: 54:40

It does. But you cannot not get the stillness if you don't experience Chaos Hardly chaos. You know, that's true and that's what it is, you know. And, as you said, you know it's survival mode. It can be, you know, like I had once situation when I was managing talents. You know, one of the talent came to me and she's like Agres, I need money. I was like what you need for? And she's like to survive, I need money to survive. And I asked what you are doing right now? I'm like I'm surviving so, and I was like I guess you have enough money. Then you know, but do you want really just to survive all the time, or you need something more? You know, if you really want to survive, you are not getting more. You know, right, you're really in survival mode all the time. You know.

Speaker 3: 55:34

Exactly, that's exactly what I was thinking. It's like you put yourself there. If you want to struggle, sure you can struggle.

Speaker 4: 55:40

Yeah, you know. Then you go and project it on others. You know I need more money, like wait. But you have to understand what really you want, right, right. If you want really that's all you want to survive, then you are going to be in this crazy mode, in this chaos, you know, fixing your life, running like almost doing, probably doing nothing, but keep running and trying to force things out of nothing, just pretend right.

Speaker 3: 56:10

She was in that place that I was in, I could totally relate to her.

Speaker 4: 56:13

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:14

Totally can relate to her.

Speaker 3: 56:16

I remember this lady that I used to go to church with and I was going over to this Bible study and I loved her, loved her, loved her, loved her.

Speaker 3: 56:22

She was just a really cool lady, and I went over there for a Bible study and she opened the door and said hi. And I said hi, and then I just began to just like spew on her about all this chaos that was going on in my life, and I remember her not even being moved. She was still and she said something like wow, you've got a lot of drama in your life, or something like that, and at first I was like I was offended, like she didn't jump on my bandwagon, she didn't join me oh, how rude. And it worked with me, though, and that was a game changer for me, because there was a reason why she said it 100% right, because today, if the tables were turned, I would have said the same thing to her, but it was an eye-opener for me, because I was just in this place of oh, you've got to hear this chaos and people don't want to hear that.

Speaker 2: 57:09

Right, unless they're also a lover of chaos, right.

Speaker 3: 57:14

That's true, that's true. She was pretty amazing, so I was on the right track with having her on my life.

Speaker 2: 57:19

You're absolutely right. And then you see that once you get to that place where you've reached the inner stillness and you are self-aware and you're aware in general and you're conscious in general of what's going on around you, the conversation shifts and the people that you have conversations with, those have to respond to you differently. They have to communicate with you differently because they know you're not, we're not bonding over your problems anymore, like you can definitely be with your problems, and I'll offer a solution if that's what you're looking for, or I'll offer just to listen to you. But then we have to get to a point where, if you're not willing to do something about it or you want to do something, I could look a lot of different ways. Then that's it, Sorry.

Speaker 3: 58:09

Then that's true, that is absolutely true.

Speaker 2: 58:11

But what's cool about that is that you realize like that causes disruptions and relationships with people. Yeah, because if your sister or brother or friend or a child or whatever, that that's your common, your commonality, you know like that's what you want over, and they call you and now all of a sudden you're like positive Patty and they're yeah like negative Nancy.

Speaker 2: 58:31

Then all of a sudden they're like what's your problem? Like, oh, you and your happy stuff, you know like whatever, whatever, you're just nasty. Don't you know we live in a world of chaos, don't you know everything's falling apart all around us, and then you start spewing like you know how sort of you feel about things and a lot of times won't tolerate it and the relationship suffers as a result.

Speaker 2: 58:54

Yeah or they go like I want some of what you're having. Yeah, like I want to. I want to explore that because that feels good to me. That makes me think what are you doing differently? Because you were my friend that we used to get all like pissed off at the world about things. Yeah, you talked about like how everything is okay, you know, and is that true? Like what did you read? Who did you talk to? Like should I be investigating this so it can go any direction?

Speaker 2: 59:21

That's funny because I laugh when I see you know, like if I'm in certain Facebook groups spirituals Facebook groups and you hear a lot about spiritual awakening and the science of spiritual awakening and blah, blah, blah, like, oh no, you go through this and everybody's like trading war stories about how horrible their life fell apart while they went through this transformation or whatever. And I can't tolerate anybody and you know, have no space or no time for all the fakeness and the BS and blah, blah, blah and I couldn't help myself. I was like I'm actually having the exact opposite experience. I feel like I have healed relationships I thought never had a chance of healing. I have. I feel that I can tolerate people that in the past I just could not tolerate Everybody to have their experience. I think the way they express themselves and what they're going through is just indicative of how much healing they've gone through you know in their personal life and without judgment, I feel just completely okay with that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:17

You know, this is how long. This is what I did to get where I needed to be on my path. Who am I to say that that person's supposed to be on the same timeline as me? You know exactly and honestly what they're going through. What they say doesn't really trigger me. I actually look at it like you're watching a sitcom. You're just going to kick out of it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

You literally just get somebody acts or says something a certain way. You really get to a point where you say, of course you would react that way. Of course you would say because of conditioning that you had as a child, because of all the things been through, because of the level of awareness that you have not reached, of course you would say that exact thing to me that in the past I would have been so hurt by yeah, use that as ammunition to hate you and to right. But now I'm at a point where I realized, like that thing that you said to me doesn't hold the same weight, it's not as destructive with me anymore. So you give people the freedom to behave and show up as they want to, and you and you when they do trigger you. You realize.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

I don't need you to realize what you did to me. I don't need you to apologize to me or say things differently. I just need to realize that there's some part of me that's not okay with what you said and the only person that's going to get me up to speed with any kind of a healing of that is me, and I need to go shut the door and do that healing work. You know, yeah, I can show up again and I'm going to respond differently to what you're saying and I'm going to expect that you're going to say the exact same kind of a thing to me, right? And she's going to trigger me the same way. It's just not going to affect me the same way.

Speaker 3: 1:01:54

Yeah, yeah, you know, on that note, one thing that has helped me over the years is separating the person from what they do right, and our kids are a great example of that. So we love our kids unconditionally. Like I can't think of anything my son would do that would make me not love him, right, I don't love everything he does Right, but I've learned and this is easier with relationships that aren't as close to you right, that are that hit you is emotionally hard, but that is something that helps me be able to work with people that would normally I've been able to because they would trigger me or because they would just be off right or whatever. And now, you know, I've got to the point and my girlfriend, she always she says I remember you telling me about that. It's taken her a while to kind of wrap her head around it. But you know, we have to interact with people. We don't have to always like what they do, but we, you know, we can love them. We can love them right where they're at.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

Right, absolutely yeah, and maybe the relationship shifts. Maybe there's some distance that needs to happen or does happen automatically, you know, because that's another thing too sometimes we're more attracted to the people that are going to upset us because they're really just triggering a part of us that's crying out for love. You know, there's the inner child that wants to be loved and wants the attention, and so we love surrounding ourselves with people that pardon the expression crap all over us because that inner child, that's what she wants, she's trying to make, she's trying to get it right.

Speaker 3: 1:03:21

Finally, you know right.

Speaker 2: 1:03:23

Yeah, she, in some like interesting way, she calls these people like you know, if we understand the law of attraction, whatever we're putting out comes back to us. Well, she's very much alive inside of us, right? And so she's calling out for these types of people to create these experiences so that she can get it right this time and finally get the love and the attention and the affection that she needs. Of course, that never happens until we show up and give ourselves that very never comes in the form of other people, ever, ever, ever. But yeah, so we, we sort of like we hack the system by working on ourselves, because then those people, you know, either stay or they go. But it's not like a conscious decision, right agress, like it's not something that we need to be like I need to cut all these people out of my life.

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

Yeah, happy, because I'm telling you right now, I've tried it and I was very unsuspecting. Yeah, I've run from people that made me feel a certain way. They will just find you, they will, I'm telling you, they will find you and they will turn up the volume and they will do what it takes to take the parts of you that are not upset and that's all done those wounds and now I'm like so grateful for that, like thank you for not giving up on me, thank you for finding me, because I thought I was better off without you. But you've taught me that there are parts of me that are not okay and I need to address that, because as soon as I dealt with that and went through that healing process, I could spend hundreds of hours with you. You just don't affect me the same way. It was never about you.

Speaker 4: 1:04:53

Right, you know this reminds me I literally had two clients, you know I've been doing this. This is the part, like, where I'm explaining them from the what I see, from the birth chart charts, and know what do they have to learn in this life. And for them there was a lesson to love authentically themselves, you know, but for them to approach that love, but authentically, they love themselves, as they, who they are, actually they, they integrating through the life, the love to humanity, you know, and only when the love to humanity will be reached, like, it means you have to start to love all craziness in everyone else, you know. You have to like, start to love all those like, like people are so different, right and yeah they.

Speaker 4: 1:05:51

There are so many things which we might hate and don't like and and, but you cannot really start to love you yourself as authentic self till you love the humanity as they are. You know all, with all the craziness they bring on, you know so and I was like, wow, yeah, it must be like this. You know like don't have it theme in my life, but it's like that that actually really resonates to me. You know that you really can reach that point that you really truly love yourself and really being can inspire and empower others to be yourself. Only when you really start to love humanity as it is, I think all that's great things and not great things.

Speaker 3: 1:06:44

We need that so bad right now.

Speaker 4: 1:06:45

And usually I can see this as the in ourselves does arrogance, you know, because arrogance is a really. You know, just like you don't listen to other perspective, you think that only your perspective is the one person and I think that we really start to love diversity all, all ways of living and let it happen.

Speaker 3: 1:07:07

And that will create unity, and we need that.

Speaker 4: 1:07:09

And that brings back to yourself and you're like oh if I love everyone who they are, I am everyone too. You know you are the one, so I can love myself who I am. Finally, you know and accept myself.

Speaker 3: 1:07:23

Yeah and accept others. Yeah, I mean yeah. Everybody's so different and it's not my job to make sure that they live their life the way I live my life. That's their journey. I got enough work right here.

Speaker 2: 1:07:38

Well, I know we're running out of time, but the one thing just want to throw in there, like to your point, agris, is that well, for me personally, I had to reverse engineer that, because I was taught from a young age and a very religious household that it's important to love everybody else and accept everybody for were.

Speaker 2: 1:07:56

But yet I wasn't behaving like that on the outside. You know, like I was. I was like judgmental of everybody around me, you know, and what I learned was that when I fully healed and integrated myself, that I became okay with myself, then I was able to love other people. Because for me, it was like, if I have to do this and I have to behave a certain way, and I have to say things a certain way and I have to show up a certain way, because this is what's expected of me from society and from my parents, well then, damn it. You should too. You know what I mean. So it was like this oh, I know I'm supposed to love you, but I really don't because you're breaking the rules and I'm not allowed to.

Speaker 2: 1:08:34

So there was this sentiment, right? So what I realized was that when I healed myself, I let myself off the hook. Then I was able to let everybody else off the hook for being how they wanted to be, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4: 1:08:48

Yeah, yeah, it's just integration of love, you know, on both ends, I think.

Speaker 3: 1:08:53

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:08:55

And it's beautiful, lisa. We are wrapping up, obviously, this episode and I think it's fly like crazy fast and we did in one hour and and before we go, maybe you can just tell people where they can find you, where they can meet you or maybe or yeah, reach out to you. What's your app about? Maybe you have some events coming or whatever you feel you share.

Speaker 3: 1:09:22

I have. I am starting my own podcast. It is called Healing and Growing Hand in Hand and it's going to start next month and it's a platform for childhood abuse healing but also just growing. Just you know, it doesn't have to be just about childhood abuse and it's bringing on experts who can help with tips and tricks and tools, as well as bringing people on to have a voice and they can share their stories of hope. And so I do have a website is healing and growing hand in hand podcastcom, and they can reach me there. Other than that, that's me.

Speaker 4: 1:09:59

That's great Still, still like beautiful stillness.

Speaker 3: 1:10:04

Yes, I'm going to soak in that stillness. I need more of that, actually, definitely.

Speaker 2: 1:10:13

Thank you so much for making time for us. It's been awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:10:16

Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:10:22

Thank you for tuning into. This is source. We hope that this conversation has sparked something within you and that you feel inspired to continue exploring your own journey of self discovery. You are the source of your own transformation and the possibilities for growth and expansion are infinite. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and family, and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep shining your light and living your truth.